Posts by Cold Steel

66

How Knowledge is Dissipated in Talks

by Cold Steel in

londo111 » each congregation has a “talk coordinator”.

talk coordinators will coordinate with other talk coordinators in order to find speakers to give the public talk on sunday.

typically, they come from the general area: the circuit or a nearby circuit.

Cold Steel

You are not coming across as abrasive, nor objectionable. I don't take offense as a rule because most people just aren't like that and those who are can live their lives as they choose.

What I'm trying to say is that translation can be done scholastically and spiritually. Translation is not something I use to judge the Book of Mormon as if it's true, there are far more realistic means of judging it. For example, if it falls through archaeologically, historically, doctrinally and so forth, that's far more viable.

There are many evidences that must be weighed for and against the book. For example, horses are mentioned in the Book of Mormon, but it's a problem because horses weren't known to exist in the New World, or barely. Those are problems. Are the insurmountable? We don't know yet because barely has been found in Mesoamerica fairly recently and the jury's not in yet on horses. I was taught in school that horses were brought here from the new world (and so they were), but there are reports of horse bones being found. The Book of Mormon also doesn't mention snow or ice, which makes it odd that a writer of fiction would leave it out, especially when so many veterans of the Revolutionary War were still alive at the time it came forth. Our archaeologists take it as indicating that the events took place in Mesoamerica, and evidence so far seems to support it. Many things, like roads and cement, had not been discovered there when the book was published. We also have the much of the first book in the Book of Mormon that took place in the old world.

Ultimately, one must look at all of these things to judge it. The next two decades should either make a great case or very difficult. Only time will tell for sure.

16

Will Charles Taze Russell be Resurrected With a Beard?

by Cold Steel in

the scriptures say all will be resurrected, some to eternal life, others to judgment.

so i wondered what's going to happen to those who wore beards during mortality?

picture if charles taze russell was resurrected and came face to face with joseph rutherford, second president of twt (the whole tamale) and the instigator of the beardless policy.

Cold Steel

FFS how many times do you need it explained to you?

Atheism is a thing, Cofty. It's as much a cult as the LDS church, ancient Christianity or any established religion. You guys don't have a pope (though you might want to consider Bill Maher) or a council, but you pretty much say the same things, make the same arguments, run the same types of websites. Same beliefs. Same inane insults. Hit one of you guys on the back of the head and you all fall over.

Religion isn't about burden of proof, it's about faith, and atheism has its own faith in nothing. Nothing ruling the universe, nothing beyond death, no reason for being here and no consequences for good or evil wrought in mortality. You have interesting articles about how you can establish moral codes, but you miss the point that those codes can bend and change as society itself bends and changes.

Anyway, I've put more thought into this reply than you've ever put into any of your anti-religion rants so I'll leave you with that. I won't bother doing any copying and pasting. Cheers!

22

144,000 & The Trinity

by Libby in

now that i'm looking beyond what the wt teaches i'm struggling to find information on three topics.

the 144,000, the trinity and prayer.. if anyone has 5 minutes could they explain:.

1. what do other religions think the 144,000 are or is?

Cold Steel

1. The LDS believe they will be high priests, called out of the world and selected from the tribes of Israel. Joseph Smith said: “We are to understand that those [144,000] who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn” (D&C 77:11).

2. Regarding the Trinity, yes, it is a problem for those who believe in the oneness of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It's both amusing and disturbing to hear some evangelicals pray a long prayer, then wrap it up by saying, "...in your name we pray. Amen." They erroneously pray to Jesus instead of the Father, which is how Jesus taught us to pray, and they don't see their error. When Jesus prayed to the Father concerning the Twelve, he said, "...that THEY may be ONE, even as WE are ONE." Jesus and the Father are ONE, even as Peter and Thomas were ONE. Not physically, but in purpose.

3. That's why, in my view, people should pray to the Father in the name of the Son.

16

Will Charles Taze Russell be Resurrected With a Beard?

by Cold Steel in

the scriptures say all will be resurrected, some to eternal life, others to judgment.

so i wondered what's going to happen to those who wore beards during mortality?

picture if charles taze russell was resurrected and came face to face with joseph rutherford, second president of twt (the whole tamale) and the instigator of the beardless policy.

Cold Steel

Half Banana » No one has ever been resurrected and no one will be resurrected anywhere, anytime, in any physical state or otherwise.

You're no fun, HB. These men are the ones who are supposed to feed us with spiritual meat. After they help torch the planet of the wicked and unrighteous, they're going to rule over those on the earth, some who may want beards. (Why they would even need to be ruled is a mystery to me. Won't people get to do what they want? Why would they need to be ruled?)

Atheism has yet to be established as truth, and Armageddon is right around the corner. I'd keep my eye on 2075. That's the latest one could reasonably expect Armageddon. Me, I'm going to shave just in case He decides to spare unbelievers.

Dubstepped » Have the Mormons baptized either of these men posthumously so that they can have hope? Now that's a question that really matters.

I don't know. Right now the church is asking people to keep it in their families, but it is, and has, done the work for others (such as Presidents and many others). But beards hardly are at issue here. And please note, I'm not the one that brought Mormonism up in this thread. Sigh.

16

Will Charles Taze Russell be Resurrected With a Beard?

by Cold Steel in

the scriptures say all will be resurrected, some to eternal life, others to judgment.

so i wondered what's going to happen to those who wore beards during mortality?

picture if charles taze russell was resurrected and came face to face with joseph rutherford, second president of twt (the whole tamale) and the instigator of the beardless policy.

Cold Steel

The scriptures say all will be resurrected, some to eternal life, others to judgment. So I wondered what's going to happen to those who wore beards during mortality? Picture if Charles Taze Russell was resurrected and came face to face with Joseph Rutherford, second president of TWT (the whole tamale) and the instigator of the beardless policy. Russell, now imbued with divine knowledge, knows Rutherford largely banned beards because of his jealousy of him, Charles.

Now Charles has come forth in celestial glory to do whatever the 144,000 do, and he has no problem with himself or 143,998 of the others.

So what happens? Who decides what the new policy is and does Russell get to sport his newly resurrected facial hair, not one of which will be lost, we're told, or does clean shaven Rutherford call the shots?

In the eternal scheme of things, who will call the shots in the
144,000 -- Russell or Rutherford? Will Russell be compelled
to surrender his whiskers in compliance with a policy set by
by his successor? Or will Rutherford's edict fall before the in-
fluence of the greatest of all Bible Students?

66

How Knowledge is Dissipated in Talks

by Cold Steel in

londo111 » each congregation has a “talk coordinator”.

talk coordinators will coordinate with other talk coordinators in order to find speakers to give the public talk on sunday.

typically, they come from the general area: the circuit or a nearby circuit.

Cold Steel

TD » One of John's pet expressions, occurring 19 times in the book attributed to him was αμην αμην λεγω υμιν (Literally, "Truly, truly I say to you.") This phrase is recognized as an idiom today and even in literal translations, modern scholars prefer equivalency of thought (e.g. Most truly, very truly, etc.) over a word repetition abnormal in English. (i.e. truly, truly)

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. As you note, the term is a New Testament term, or idiom. But Jesus used the term himself on occasion to emphasize that what he was saying was true. Which raises the question of what a translation is. According to Dr. Hugh Nibley, one of our foremost scholars, it's text, in the translator's own words, of what he thinks the original author had in mind. It should not be a slavish transliteration from one language to another. It requires thought and a knowledge of the original text and the person who wrote it.

In this case, the person who said it in Greek or Aramaic in the Old World, was the same person who was saying it in the Western Hemisphere. He was saying, "Of a truth, I'm saying to you," or "What I'm about to say is true." Most Americans in Joseph Smith's time knew full well what he meant when they read the Book of Mormon. Thus, we argue that the translation was true and transmitted what Jesus had in mind.

In the Book of Mormon, many words are not translated the way scholars translate text. The terms "Jesus" (Greek for Joshua) or "Christ" (Greek for messiah) are used, even in text written in 600 B.C.E. In another place, "Adieu" was used to translate "a fond, loving farewell." Our early critics said, "Look, the Nephites spoke French!" And "Jerusalem" was used instead of "Bethlehem" to indicate where Jesus was to be born. (In that case, the words "land of Jerusalem" were used by the original writer who knew no one in the New World would know where Bethlehem was. As the Dead Sea Scrolls have revealed, Bethlehem was indeed a city in the "land of Jerusalem.")

Martin Luther complained of those who criticized his translation of the Bible (his tone was his, not mine, so please take no offense!):

"Yet why should I be concerned about their ranting and raving? I will not stop them from translating as they want. But I too shall translate, not as they please but as I please. And whoever does not like it can just ignore it and keep his criticism to himself, for I will neither look at nor listen to it. They do not have to answer for my translation or bear any responsibility for it." --Martin Luther

We put the responsibility of translating with the Lord himself. The question is put to us, is the Book of Mormon a true translation? And we say yes, it was of God. At the same time we have to say that His ways are not our ways. Even in 1830, Joseph Smith knew "Christ" was the Greek word for Messiah" and so forth. He could have fixed it had he meant to deceive, but we have what we have.

Cheers!

Londo111 » I wish this forum was more welcoming to those of different backgrounds, no matter the reason for their visit here. Antagonism can only alienate and is not helpful to anyone.

Me, too, Londo. Me, too. Thanks.

24

Truth and Honesty? Why is it only a one-way street??

by stuckinarut2 in

the society, "gods channel" teach and expect truth and honesty from all witnesses.

scripures are often quoted to promote such.. but, why is it only a one way street?

why is the society not truthful and honest with witnesses?

Cold Steel

Why is the Society not truthful and honest with witnesses? Why are scandals kept quite, and past falsehoods not shared? Why are witnesses not told of the uncomfortable history?

Ever study Marxism?

23

JUNE 2017 Watchtower - Lost a loved one? Go out in service!

by pale.emperor in

apparently going to the kingdom hall and getting out in the door to door ministry is the best way to get over the loss of a loved one.

who'dve thunk it?.

stash: /intesoft-inc.appspot.com/post/80e3cef960fd4eee9fd5cd757c438581.html

Cold Steel

I would be so frickin' depressed about my loved ones being put into the ground to be worm food. I'd much rather think of them continuing on in some way. Religion is supposed to provide comforting answers.

My grandmother feared death and as she got closer to it, I learned that the JW part of the family had sent her literature to help ease her fears. Instead it frightened her. Being a good Methodist woman, she wanted to go and be with her husband. The JW literature really depressed her.

We dumped the literature she'd been sent in the trash and she actually died in peace. Sitting watching the nightly news.

66

How Knowledge is Dissipated in Talks

by Cold Steel in

londo111 » each congregation has a “talk coordinator”.

talk coordinators will coordinate with other talk coordinators in order to find speakers to give the public talk on sunday.

typically, they come from the general area: the circuit or a nearby circuit.

Cold Steel

TD » There is no explanation for how a Greek idiom (αμην αμην λεγω υμιν) unique to only one writer of the NT found its way into the BOM other than the obvious: --A poor 19th century farm boy did not understand the danger of copying directly from the KJV, which translates the idiom literally.

What's the idiom? I'll check it out.

I had a Mormon girlfriend.

I ended up with a non-Mormon wife from Tehran. She came to the U.S. before the Revolution and despised Islam so much that she became a Greek Orthodox. She took the introductory course they offered at the local church. I had taken the same course just out of interest (I study other religions and ended up here when an aunt, uncle and their family became JWs. The family broke off all relations with us.)

To this day she's just happy to be out of Islam. She's been back to Iran and says the buildings are all the same, but the people have changed.

Her parents were some of the finest people I've ever met. We took them to the beach and I went into a BBQ ribs place. Her dad had never once touched pork, and I gave him a few of mine. He loved them.

66

How Knowledge is Dissipated in Talks

by Cold Steel in

londo111 » each congregation has a “talk coordinator”.

talk coordinators will coordinate with other talk coordinators in order to find speakers to give the public talk on sunday.

typically, they come from the general area: the circuit or a nearby circuit.

Cold Steel

No, I never had a JW girlfriend because I'm pretty sure I could have either converted her or, at the least, got her to leave the JW faith.

But you guys really need to lighten up. We have none of the cultish aspects of the JWs. (Cofty hates any religion, so he's not a good source for anything having to do theology. He lacks...substance. He's quick to a few barbs, then vanishes, and is kind of like Eris (Discord) in Greek mythology. At the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, she threw in a golden apple and...poof, gone.) We LDS have world class geologists, archaeologists, anthropologists, professors of ancient scripture, historians -- all educated people you won't find in JW circles. We also interact with Islamic, Jewish and other Christian faiths that JWs don't do. An really, the only ones who call us a "cult" are the evangelicals and atheists, and they're going to Hell anyway (JUST KIDDING!).

There are both problems and evidences in the Book of Mormon and if anyone wants to discuss these and other issues, I'll be happy to address them via private messages if you wish. But this "cult" thing is ridiculous. I'm FREE to think like I want, believe what I want, read what I want, associate with whom I want, and we don't shun anyone. And our meetings are as boring as anyone else's (but I like the courses). So what's with the cult? (And c'mon, even first century Christianity was a cult, so what's the difference?)

So it's just a case of name calling. If someone has any actual issues they want addressed, drop me a line. But please don't copy and paste from anti-Mormon sites. I've seen it all.